The God Delusion. How could rational beings believe such ridiculous concept?

There are lots of religions and lots of Gods. The main ones are a source of social control. Mankind cannot believe he is just an advanced species of monkey distained to be born as a result of sexual intercourse, live for a limited period and die off into oblivion. He is quite smart and has subdued many other species. Why is he so deluded into believing the scribblings of goat herders in distant lands thousands of years ago?
 
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Well, it's an interesting concept and one I think you have literally summed up as control. Religion is a controlling concept and it is designed to be just that. However, Religion and faith are two very different things.

For Instance, did Jesus tell people to be Catholic, Christian, or anything? THe man was born a Jew and yet did not himself subscribe to traditions of Jewish teaching and went out into the world and preached Love, Peace, and Unity.

When we look at the old testament we have similar teachings, nothing telling us to be a Christian, Jew, or Muslim, nothing telling us to wear condoms or to give the priest 50 euro at Christmas time. The old testament is a book of old stories that have been passed down the years and over those years most likely changed to help the reader better understand what they are hearing.

For Instance, the story of Noahs Ark, to a modern human the idea that a man built a ship so big enough that he was able to put 2 of each species into this ark and survive the storms that ravaged the Earth and start again on a newly cleansed world would make sense to a 12th Century human but not so to a 21st Century Human.

But imagine if this was the story we were told,

Noah was a person from another world, the Ark was a giant Spaceship and the animals 2x2 were DNA samples of every life on that planet. The planet was Mars and it had suffered a catastrophic event that meant that the Ark was to travel to a new world and start human life over again, this journey would take the ark to Earth. This story would certainly make more sense to the 21st Century Human but not so to a 12th Century human, so you can see how stories are manipulated to make sense to the people of the time.

How does this prove that there is a God, well it doesn't prove anything other than how stores are manipulated to make sense to the person listening, however, stores come from somewhere and despite being manipulated there is often some truth to them and they are built upon something passed down through the centuries.

Science does not have all the answers for us, even now some scientists believe that this is all a Computer Programme and we are sims living out our daily lives, so even then Science is basically telling us that there is a God, all be it a programmer who created the simulation we live in and one that can change the simulation with a click of the button.
 
Well, it's an interesting concept and one I think you have literally summed up as control. Religion is a controlling concept and it is designed to be just that. However, Religion and faith are two very different things.

For Instance, did Jesus tell people to be Catholic, Christian, or anything? THe man was born a Jew and yet did not himself subscribe to traditions of Jewish teaching and went out into the world and preached Love, Peace, and Unity.

When we look at the old testament we have similar teachings, nothing telling us to be a Christian, Jew, or Muslim, nothing telling us to wear condoms or to give the priest 50 euro at Christmas time. The old testament is a book of old stories that have been passed down the years and over those years most likely changed to help the reader better understand what they are hearing.

For Instance, the story of Noahs Ark, to a modern human the idea that a man built a ship so big enough that he was able to put 2 of each species into this ark and survive the storms that ravaged the Earth and start again on a newly cleansed world would make sense to a 12th Century human but not so to a 21st Century Human.

But imagine if this was the story we were told,

Noah was a person from another world, the Ark was a giant Spaceship and the animals 2x2 were DNA samples of every life on that planet. The planet was Mars and it had suffered a catastrophic event that meant that the Ark was to travel to a new world and start human life over again, this journey would take the ark to Earth. This story would certainly make more sense to the 21st Century Human but not so to a 12th Century human, so you can see how stories are manipulated to make sense to the people of the time.

How does this prove that there is a God, well it doesn't prove anything other than how stores are manipulated to make sense to the person listening, however, stores come from somewhere and despite being manipulated there is often some truth to them and they are built upon something passed down through the centuries.

Science does not have all the answers for us, even now some scientists believe that this is all a Computer Programme and we are sims living out our daily lives, so even then Science is basically telling us that there is a God, all be it a programmer who created the simulation we live in and one that can change the simulation with a click of the button.
You put great thought and effort into that post so credit is due. An example of good debate.
 
Humans were faced with having advanced brains and were able to answer many questions. The one they were faced with was who made the world and how did we get here? Elder people who could answer this question were highly regarded. Those who admitted they could not answer those questions were dismissed as ignorant. In reality it was the other way around. Nearly all native tribes provide answers which seem ridiculous to us. So there was high pressure on leaders to provide answers. In Ireland the bog bodies are thought to to come from the belief that a leader who could not influence the Gods deserved to be executed and they were. The nature of humans is that they have an obsession to believe in God.
 
Humans were faced with having advanced brains and were able to answer many questions. The one they were faced with was who made the world and how did we get here? Elder people who could answer this question were highly regarded. Those who admitted they could not answer those questions were dismissed as ignorant. In reality it was the other way around. Nearly all native tribes provide answers which seem ridiculous to us. So there was high pressure on leaders to provide answers. In Ireland the bog bodies are thought to to come from the belief that a leader who could not influence the Gods deserved to be executed and they were. The nature of humans is that they have an obsession to believe in God.
Today those who do not believe in the existence of a higher power such as God still ask those very same questions, yourself for instance I believe can be placed in this category?

Despite the success of how intelligent humans are today and the advances, we have made in technology we are still left with the very same questions that our ancestors had all those years ago.

1. What created the Universe.
2. What was there before the Universe existed?
3. What is the universe currently expanding into?


Science has answered many questions, even today we are discovering new things that give us more questions, such as the infamous God Particle.

I already mentioned how some scientists believe we live in a simulation so by that logic they are already admitting to the existence of a God in some format.

We also know that despite the illusion of Chaos in the Universe there is, in fact, an order to it, Mathematics is the key to unlocking the secrets but also discovering, even more, the Fibonacci sequence and the Golden Ratio, for instance, are fascinating and show in my opinion proof of the intelligent design.

But above all, my one true personal belief that there is more than being born and dying to life that in a way demonstrates that there is more to death than us just rotting in the ground is our emotions.

Love, we all love someone, be it our parents, our partner, our children. Love is an emotion that we develop and use for certain people in our lives, when we lose them we feel an agonizing pain that destroys us, and whilst with the passage of time, we may overcome that devastating loss we still feel empty and hollow for the loss we had. When we love someone we have bursts of emotions that can't be matched.

Do we need Love to exist? No, we certainly do not, if we are simply mere animals that are nothing more than an accident of nature, or nothing more than the survival of the fittest, why would we need to feel emotions, especially love to exist?

Any animal can procreate without love, why would any animal try to survive with also having to provide for the survival of others in its pack?

Love is a bond that we take to the grave, its not something we use for a short period and then discard, thus I can only conclude that Love is something that demonstrates that there is more to this life than we know, and if love is something we accept that is real then who gave us these emotions that we do not need to survive?
 
Today those who do not believe in the existence of a higher power such as God still ask those very same questions, yourself for instance I believe can be placed in this category?

Despite the success of how intelligent humans are today and the advances, we have made in technology we are still left with the very same questions that our ancestors had all those years ago.

1. What created the Universe.
2. What was there before the Universe existed?
3. What is the universe currently expanding into?


Science has answered many questions, even today we are discovering new things that give us more questions, such as the infamous God Particle.

I already mentioned how some scientists believe we live in a simulation so by that logic they are already admitting to the existence of a God in some format.

We also know that despite the illusion of Chaos in the Universe there is, in fact, an order to it, Mathematics is the key to unlocking the secrets but also discovering, even more, the Fibonacci sequence and the Golden Ratio, for instance, are fascinating and show in my opinion proof of the intelligent design.

But above all, my one true personal belief that there is more than being born and dying to life that in a way demonstrates that there is more to death than us just rotting in the ground is our emotions.

Love, we all love someone, be it our parents, our partner, our children. Love is an emotion that we develop and use for certain people in our lives, when we lose them we feel an agonizing pain that destroys us, and whilst with the passage of time, we may overcome that devastating loss we still feel empty and hollow for the loss we had. When we love someone we have bursts of emotions that can't be matched.

Do we need Love to exist? No, we certainly do not, if we are simply mere animals that are nothing more than an accident of nature, or nothing more than the survival of the fittest, why would we need to feel emotions, especially love to exist?

Any animal can procreate without love, why would any animal try to survive with also having to provide for the survival of others in its pack?

Love is a bond that we take to the grave, its not something we use for a short period and then discard, thus I can only conclude that Love is something that demonstrates that there is more to this life than we know, and if love is something we accept that is real then who gave us these emotions that we do not need to survive?
There is a lot there, no problem, but I will have to respond in bits and pieces if that if all right and it will take some time to do. One problem we face in believing we are special is why would nature or a God favour humans and at what point did that favour happen? If we consider a person aged 70 who has a loyal dog which is treasured as a faithful loving companion, and both die, why would the person receive special after life treatment and the dog not? The dog might not have too big a brain but an elephant does and a dolphin comes close. When is the line drawn? See how many creatures died before the advent of man? some are fossils. Has their spirit bene taken in to heaven?
 
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Take your time, I find it a fascinating subject and it's one that needs time to truly dissect!
Good, it must be remembered that stories lose nothing in the telling. It is reasonable to assume that there is nature, its basic building material is radiation which forms into atoms due to atomic forces. These atoms have at least three main components, the proton the neutron and the electron creating 100 elements everywhere. It is 13 billion years old and life is only 3.77 billion years old. So if there was a God at work he was around 9.23 billion years before life began.

What was he doing all that time, why did he need to wait when he could create it all in an hour. The God made the heavens and earth story in 7 days is untrue, a complete concoction. You could argue that he did take 7 days to make it 13 billion years ago. But the bible says he made the heavens and the earth in a week. The earth did not form 13 billion years ago, It formed 4.5 billion years ago.
 
Good, it must be remembered that stories lose nothing in the telling. It is reasonable to assume that there is nature, its basic building material is radiation which forms into atoms due to atomic forces. These atoms have at least three main components, the proton the neutron and the electron creating 100 elements everywhere. It is 13 billion years old and life is only 3.77 billion years old. So if there was a God at work he was around 9.23 billion years before life began.

What was he doing all that time, why did he need to wait when he could create it all in an hour. The God made the heavens and earth story in 7 days is untrue, a complete concoction. You could argue that he did take 7 days to make it 13 billion years ago. But the bible says he made the heavens and the earth in a week. The earth did not form 13 billion years ago, It formed 4.5 billion years ago.

Firstly, you are considering time as a human construct, time is limited within our own understanding of science, God however is outside of our own time and space thus time and space are irrelevant for him, and I use him as a crude discription for God.

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The same can be attributed to the Big Bang, i.e, this Universe was created out of nothing, something from nothing created the big bang, and the universe began expanding into nothing.
 
Well the time is that for 99% of humanity's existence there was no description of God. The description of God was different between every primitive society. The Lakota Native Americans believed their people came from a hole in the ground. Some organised societies like the ancient Greeks and the Egyptians developed gods which we now laugh at.

The Egyptians worshiped the sun God Ra. That coincided with the advent of writing. It was writing which led to the
scriptures, new testament, old testament and Koran. They were called deities. It was like film today. Once there is a new medium of communication, there comes a desire to use it.
 
People born before the advent of writing are condemned to hell and those born after it are divided onto two, Those who keep the faith go to heaven and those who fail go to hell.

Christ never described America. It was 1,000 years before the Vikings discovered America. Why? The miracle of the loves and fishes where he turned multiplied bread and fish is false. The Jews never went out without a sack containing
a packed meal. If they could not fill the sack they did not go. There was no hungry group there.
 
We also know that despite the illusion of Chaos in the Universe there is, in fact, an order to it, Mathematics is the key to unlocking the secrets but also discovering, even more, the Fibonacci sequence and the Golden Ratio, for instance, are fascinating and show in my opinion proof of the intelligent design.

This is a very underwhelming statement about the reality.

The precision of the entire creation is literally mind blowing to the extent that the level of precision can barely be comprehended.

That level of precision points to several conclusions. That the precision is premised upon a design and therefore this design has to come from a designer.
 
This is a very underwhelming statement about the reality.

The precision of the entire creation is literally mind blowing to the extent that the level of precision can barely be comprehended.

That level of precision points to several conclusions. That the precision is premised upon a design and therefore this design has to come from a designer.
Every single star and planet is roughly a sphere shaped because it is the most economical and logical result of large objects under gravity. There are a few peculiar phenomenon's. One is that a compound of hydrogen and oxygen at a radio of 1:2 gives water. Like other compounds it contracts and expands with changes in temperature at the same pressure. If you take water at 293.15 Kelvin (20C) and cool it to 268.16 K, (-4C) it expands. If you heat it up to 393 K (120 C) it also expands. This allows fish to live in a lake, the top of the water freezes not the depths ;

 
This is a very underwhelming statement about the reality.

The precision of the entire creation is literally mind blowing to the extent that the level of precision can barely be comprehended.

That level of precision points to several conclusions. That the precision is premised upon a design and therefore this design has to come from a designer.
The only puzzle is what happens below the size of the atom. Once you get up to the size of an atom there is no mystery. There is no such thing as an object, just a collection of atoms subject to the force they call gravity. All we see out there makes perfect sense to me. The fact that humans cannot make head or tail of it means nothing. It just means they are stupid.
 
The only puzzle is what happens below the size of the atom. Once you get up to the size of an atom there is no mystery. There is no such thing as an object, just a collection of atoms subject to the force they call gravity. All we see out there makes perfect sense to me. The fact that humans cannot make head or tail of it means nothing. It just means they are stupid.
That must include you.
 
If a God created the world and made man in his own image and likeness, he would hardly have sexual intercourse
a necessity for procreation.
He would hardly have a woman do that and he certainly would not have a man do suck an undignified act, would he?
More rubbish from a poster who pretends to know what God would or would not do and who also expresses a hatred for human sexuality
 
More rubbish from a poster who pretends to know what God would or would not do and who also expresses a hatred for human sexuality
The God as described could surely have come up with a more dignified way to reproduce that that. The man could do like the pea cock. Cough up a pea sized seed, hand it to the lady who decides to take it or not. She then swallows it.

Baby in nine months. Several other options.
 
John McCririck the racing TV presenter man, asked the question, where was God 5000 years ago?

Are people who live back then condemned to hell? Do native tribes who never met white people all go to hell
to Satan? The whole thing is ridiculous.
 

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